M
Musical Chairs
Senior Member
Japan & US, Japanese & English
- Nov 25, 2007
- #1
I read in the newspapers about a girl who "hanged herself". I thought maybe it should be "hung herself" since "hung" is the past tense of "hang" but the fact that it was in major newspapers made me wonder.
la grive solitaire
Senior Member
United States, English
- Nov 25, 2007
- #2
No, hanged is correct in this context (death by hanging).
M
Musical Chairs
Senior Member
Japan & US, Japanese & English
- Nov 25, 2007
- #3
I googled them and the numbers are comparable. Edit: Actually, "hung" gets you more results depending on what noun you use.
S
Sepia
Senior Member
High German/Danish
- Nov 25, 2007
- #4
... shall be hanged by his neck till he is dead
it always says in the verdict.
Franglais Maestro
Senior Member
Yorkshire
England English
- Nov 25, 2007
- #5
"The culprit was hanged and this corpse was hung on the tree."
Hanged is the correct past participle for hang. It is only used when talking about the death sentence.
Hung is used for everything where an object, or in unfortunate cases a corpse, is hung somwhere to dry or , in unfortunate circumstances, to rot.
FM
M
Musical Chairs
Senior Member
Japan & US, Japanese & English
- Nov 25, 2007
- #6
Interesting...so all those people who said "hung himself" are wrong? It seems that enough people say it for it to not sound funny.
E
emma42
Senior Member
North East USA
British English
- Nov 25, 2007
- #7
It's only used when referring to a person who has been hanged or has hanged themselves, to achieve death. It doesn't necessarily have to refer to the death sentence.
Strictly speaking, yes, people who use "hung" in this context are wrong. I think that lots of people don't know about the difference between "hanged" and "hung", and might well think that "hanged" is "wrong", for want of a better word.
Franglais Maestro
Senior Member
Yorkshire
England English
- Nov 25, 2007
- #8
In Italian or French the words are very different. In English they are not. This has led to a dilution of the "correct" form and many people now use hung because hanged is so rarely used that the word sounds wrong, even to an English ear. This, I suppose,is an example of the evolution of language. Hanged is now almost a historical word, and I get it wrong too because hanged is not in my active vocabulary.
Harry Batt
Senior Member
Minneapolis
USA English
- Nov 25, 2007
- #9
The rule is arbitrary. Hanged and hung are both past participles of the verb hang. However, hanged is used for executions and hung is used for all other uses. Harper Collins Handbook for Writers.
E
emma42
Senior Member
North East USA
British English
- Nov 26, 2007
- #10
I don't agree Harry.
She committed suicide. She hanged herself.You wouldn't use "hung" in that sentence, would you?
Harry Batt
Senior Member
Minneapolis
USA English
- Nov 26, 2007
- #11
Emma I should have eleborated on the reference to execution. If the death is executed by order or by style, hanging prevails. You would not say "She hung herself." If you say that some chap was hung it means something relating to his physique. Sorry about the omission.
nzfauna
Senior Member
Wellington, New Zealand
New Zealand, English
- Nov 26, 2007
- #12
Franglais Maestro said: In Italian or French the words are very different. In English they are not. This has led to a dilution of the "correct" form and many people now use hung because hanged is so rarely used that the word sounds wrong, even to an English ear. This, I suppose,is an example of the evolution of language. Hanged is now almost a historical word, and I get it wrong too because hanged is not in my active vocabulary.
I strongly disagree with this assessment.
The difference between hung and hanged is a well-known quirk of the English language.
I would venture that all educated speakers [I hope] would used hanged in reference to a means of death, and hung for all other uses. It is not merely a historical use.
sdgraham
Senior Member
Oregon, USA
USA English
- Nov 26, 2007
- #13
Musical Chairs said:
Interesting...so all those people who said "hung himself" are wrong?
That is correct
M
mjscott
Senior Member
Pacific Northwest, USA
American English
- Nov 26, 2007
- #14
Hanged is for executions and when it is the reflexive past tense of to hang.
nzfauna
Senior Member
Wellington, New Zealand
New Zealand, English
- Nov 26, 2007
- #15
Reflexive? How so?
C
Cagey
post mod (English Only / Latin)
California
English - US
- Nov 26, 2007
- #16
nzfauna said:
Reflexive? How so?
"Hang" as a reflexive verb, that is, with a reflexive pronoun, describes suicide: "to hang oneself".
Hence, mjscott is saying, and I agree, that in the past tense the proper from is "hanged herself/ himself etc."
T
Tabac
Senior Member
Pacific Northwest (USA)
U. S. - English
- Nov 26, 2007
- #17
Harry Batt said:
Emma I should have eleborated on the reference to execution. If the death is executed by order or by style, hanging prevails. You would not say "She hung herself." If you say that some chap was hung it means something relating to his physique. However, a jury that cannot agree on a verdict is said to be hung. Sorry about the omission.
I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet.
Harry Batt
Senior Member
Minneapolis
USA English
- Nov 26, 2007
- #18
Ah yes, the use of the language goes on. When the judge hears that he has a hung jury on his hands, his question to the bailiff is, "What's the hang up?"
nzfauna
Senior Member
Wellington, New Zealand
New Zealand, English
- Nov 26, 2007
- #19
Cagey said:
"Hang" as a reflexive verb, that is, with a reflexive pronoun, describes suicide: "to hang oneself".
Hence, mjscott is saying, and I agree, that in the past tense the proper from is "hanged herself/ himself etc."
What about "Sadam was hanged" - there is no reflexive utterance in this sentence.
[[In response to MJ's "Hanged is for executions and when it is the reflexive past tense of to hang."]]
ewie
Senior Member
Manchester
English English
- Nov 26, 2007
- #20
A cat among pigeons: I'm sure I've read somewhere that this distinction between hang/hung and hang/hanged is one of those examples in which 18th- or 19th-century prescriptivist grammarians actually 'invented' the latter form, for reasons known best to themselves.
Cf. The Shorter OED (1983 edn)
to put to death by suspension by the neck. (In this sense, hanged is now the specific form of the past tense and past participle) [my emphasis of 'now']
To the best of my knowledge there was only ever
verb in Old English, hangian. Anyone care (enough) to comment?
nzfauna
Senior Member
Wellington, New Zealand
New Zealand, English
- Nov 26, 2007
- #21
"specific form" = read: a special use designed to distinguish between the act of killing, and just normal hanging.
I'd say it was warranted.
E
Elwintee
Senior Member
London England
England English
- Nov 26, 2007
- #22
ewie said:
A cat among pigeons: I'm sure I've read somewhere that this distinction between hang/hung and hang/hanged is one of those examples in which 18th- or 19th-century prescriptivist grammarians actually 'invented' the latter form, for reasons known best to themselves.
one
Cf. The Shorter OED (1983 edn)
to put to death by suspension by the neck. (In this sense, hanged is now the specific form of the past tense and past participle) [my emphasis of 'now']
To the best of my knowledge there was only eververb in Old English, hangian. Anyone care (enough) to comment?
The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary tells us that (1) 'hanged' in the general sense (first use recorded 1451) is now obsolete, but (2) 'hanged', meaning put to death by hanging by the neck, has a first recorded use in 1470.
Incidentally, in that 'general use' context, we say that someone who is a fall-guy or scapegoat is 'hung out to dry'.
panjandrum
Senior Member
Belfast, Ireland
English-Ireland (top end)
- Nov 26, 2007
- #23
From one of the earlier threads on this topic (I'll come back with more in a minute or two):
According to www.etymonline.com "hanged" was (as one would expect) the first past participle of the two, and "hung" emerged as a past participle in 16th century northern England (don't all the best things?!). "Hanged" endured in the context of execution because it was part of legal language, which tends to be conservative.
hung or hanged
Diddy
Senior Member
Spanish
- Nov 26, 2007
- #24
Are these good examples of what you are writing here about?
Sadam was hanged. (a person was hanged soon after the judge gave the veredict).
Mary hung a picture in the living room yesterday. (an object)
C
Cagey
post mod (English Only / Latin)
California
English - US
- Nov 26, 2007
- #25
nzfauna said:
What about "Sadam was hanged" - there is no reflexive utterance in this sentence.
[[In response to MJ's "Hanged is for executions and when it is the reflexive past tense of to hang."]]
Yes, the rule was stated so as to include both executions (non-reflexive uses of "hang"), as in the execution of Sadam and suicides through hanging (reflexive uses of the verb).
The post that started this thread was about the second (reflexive) use of "hanged", and most discussion of the grammar has referred to the first (non-reflexive) use of "hanged".
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